Agenda and minutes

Care & Independence Overview and Scrutiny Committee - Thursday, 7th December, 2023 10.00 am

Venue: Brierley Room, County Hall, Northallerton, DL7 8AD

Contact: Christine Phillipson  Email:

No. Item


Welcome and Introductions


Minutes of the Meeting held on 22nd June 2023 pdf icon PDF 371 KB


Resolved - That the minutes of the meeting held on 22 June 2023 be taken as read and confirmed by the Chair as a correct record.


It was noted that an update from the meeting held on 2 March 2023 on climate change training  was still outstanding. This will be followed up with Jill Quinn and an update given at the next Committee meeting in March.


Apologies for Absence


Apologies were received from Councillor Philip Barrett.


Declarations of Interest

All Members are invited to declare at this point any interests they have in items appearing on this agenda, including the nature of those interests.


There were none.


Public Participation

Members of the public may ask questions or make statements at this meeting if they have given notice to Christine Phillipson of Democratic and Scrutiny Services (contact details below) and supplied the text by midday on Monday 4th December, three working days before the day of the meeting.  Each speaker should limit themselves to 3 minutes on any item.  Members of the public who have given notice will be invited to speak:-

·         at this point in the meeting if their questions/statements relate to matters which are not otherwise on the Agenda (subject to an overall time limit of 30 minutes);


·         when the relevant Agenda item is being considered if they wish to speak on a matter which is on the Agenda for this meeting.


If you are exercising your right to speak at this meeting, but do not wish to be recorded, please inform the Chair who will instruct anyone who may be taking a recording to cease while you speak.



No public questions or statements were received.


Chair's Statement - Correspondence, communication or other business brought forward by the direction of the Chair of the Committee.


The Chair noted that as all the information had been published in the agenda already, presentations would be brief allowing further time for Members questions and discussion.


The Chair welcomed Councillor Rich Maw who had been invited to speak at the Committee. The Chair confirmed this would be at the relevant agenda item, item 9, Housing Strategy Update.


Adult Social Care Pressures and Charging Reform (Trailblazer) - Report from Anton Hodge, Assistant Director Resources, Resources Management Team. pdf icon PDF 582 KB


Considered – An update from Anton Hodge, Assistant Director Resources, Resources Management Team.


This covered the following main points:

·       Health and Adult Services Budget

·       Main area of spend is care and support at 80.2% of the net budget

·       Adult social care pressures are a national issue

·       Rurality costs are high with potentially 45 mins downtime in some cases for travel

·       Workforce pressures remain an issue

·       Approved Provider Lists (APL) continues to cause budget pressures

·       High-cost packages of care are continuing to increase

·       Continuing high level of hospital discharge costs

·       Work has started well in reducing the length and cost of short-term placements

·       Significant reduction in one off support costs to providers

·       Focus is on areas to contribute to the MTFS savings programme

·       ASC Charging Reform looks to be reintroduced in late 2025


There then followed a discussion with the following questions being raised:


·       Are we still using other authorities for help?

·       Where is the extra money coming from to fund the increased discharge from hospital costs?

·       What is the increase in the 23/24 budget against the 22/23 budget?

·       Is there enough spend on mental health care ?

·       Do the high dependency cases identified consist of medical and social care aspects?


Local Government Reorganisation has brough benefits by working across the County with a wider team and for the needs of the Community.

Costs will continue to rise unfortunately, however North Yorkshire Council continues to remain in a good place in comparison to some other authorities.

Costs continue to differ in areas and higher costs are recognised in certain parts of the County. Short stay pathway with intermediate care and reablement should help to reduce costs.

Some care packages are requiring 1 to 1 and sometimes 2 to 1 support hence increasing costs, however some of these cases are both medical and social and therefore a contribution from the NHS is received.

Whilst some providers have gone out of business and we have had to pick up the business, there is no profit sought when this happens so ultimately this can result in a reduced cost.

Whilst the mental health budget increased during covid, this is not the most expensive service, but it continues to increase. There is a team specifically looking at ensuring individuals receive the benefits to which they are entitled.


Resolved – The Chair thanked Anton for the report and update and suggested he return to a future meeting with a further update.


Suicide Prevention - Presentation from Dr Victoria Turner, Public Health Consultant & Dan Atkinson, Public Health Manager. pdf icon PDF 379 KB


Considered – An update from Dr Victoria Turner, Public Health Consultant and Dan Atkinson, Public Health Manager.


This covered the following points:

·       All sudden deaths are shared with Public Health by the Coroners Office

·       Patterns, trends and clusters can then be monitored helping to inform local actions and priorities

·       There tends to be a higher suicide rate in early summer

·       Rates are decreasing but still there is a higher proportion of male than female suicides, in line with the national trend

·       Support groups and help are available as is postvention support

·       Audits allow a comparison of local suicide data and trends with those identified nationally and regionally, as well as highlighting local risk factors, "at risk" groups or areas of higher incidence 

·       New cross government strategy published in September 2023 to cover prevention efforts from  2023 to 2028

·       Strategy prevention group consists of representatives from NYC, Police, Fire TEWV and Ambulance

·       Crisis support provision


A discussion followed highlighting the following points;

·       Is there any data available on the possible reasons leading to suicide?

·       What size and length of time is the waiting list to seek support?

·       What are the timescales for addiction treatment?

·       Is there work to help educate in schools and for teenagers?

·       Can we learn from data and intervene by identifying issues?

·       Some great work has taken place in Scarborough which should be recognised


Some useful links and further information can be found


·       The new online report for near real time surveillance of suspected suicides is available here: Statistical report: near to real-time suspected suicide surveillance (nRTSSS) for England for the 15 months to August 2023 - GOV.UK (

·       The new national suicide prevention strategy is available here: Suicide prevention in England: 5-year cross-sector strategy - GOV.UK (

·       This is the Headfirst website for training for VCSE To note: it's currently under review so may be subject to change in coming months. We're also planning in courses through 2024 at the moment

·       Link to Suicide First Aid Training:



Resolved – The Chair thanked Victoria and Dan for the very informative update and suggested they return to a future meeting. If the Committee have any further questions or require any more information, please contact Victoria or Dan.



Housing Strategy Update - Update from Sharon Graham, North Yorkshire Housing Strategy Manager. pdf icon PDF 276 KB

Additional documents:


The Chair invited Councillor Rich Maw to speak at this point.

Councillor Maw described a local company Homemore and the work they were doing in Scarborough working with vulnerable and homeless people.


Councillor Maw spoke of the mental health issues associated with homelessness and that this was a big problem in Scarborough. This was due to many factors including high rents, low employment opportunities and poor welfare, amongst others. Whilst unemployment in Scarborough at 3% is lower than the national average it is still a major contributing factor. Each case is different and Homemore is working closely with other support services and the system works well. Staff are trained to deal with attempted suicide incidents and while overall costs are higher the benefits of the system are clear to see. It was suggested that Councillor Myers met with representatives of Homemore at some point in the future.


Councillor Sedgwick and Councillor Broadbent had recently visited Homemore (4th December) where they met with representatives from the company and Councillor Rich Maw. They were able to meet the guests, view the family accommodation and have some really useful discussions with some of the staff.


Considered – A presentation on the housing strategy from Sharon Graham and Andrew Rowe.


This presentation was to advise members on the housing strategy, the councils ambitions, priorities and targets and how we fulfil our role as a strategic housing authority. It was emphasised that this was not a local plan.


The presentation covered the following main points:

·       housing conditions

·       access to housing

·       enforcing standards across all tenures

·       enabling new homes

·       delivering new homes

·       enabling people to stay living in their own homes


It was reiterated by Andrew that housing covered a broad area and subject matter and whilst the action plan covered the next 3-4 years,  a number of things were under way currently. Homelessness was increasing nationally, and the North Yorkshire spend has quadrupled with 220 people currently in temporary accommodation, with 90 of those being in Scarborough. The current picture is very different and more professional working families and individuals are now in need of temporary accommodation.

Housing provider options vary with own stock, housing association properties, private companies, landlords and bed and breakfast providers. The current spend is £2 million per year on hotels and B&B’s , this is clearly too expensive. Investment from NYC is needed and to recycle savings to help with support. Sharing good practice is currently underway across the County and the housing and health relationship is key.

Housing retrofits in the private sector are a priority to bring the properties up to quality/standard.

The aim is to build 800-900 affordable homes per year with the potential to develop council/social housing. Selective licencing is a priority for private rented accommodation as currently enforcement is responsive only.


A discussion then took place that raised the following:


·       Work was underway with partners to both upgrade existing and invest in new homes

·       Councillors need to embrace their role and work with  ...  view the full minutes text for item 20.


Dementia Care - Update from Abi Barron, Assistant Director, Prevention and Service Development & Mike Rudd, Head of Housing Market Development Accommodation. pdf icon PDF 575 KB


Due to time and prior diary commitments this item was deferred until the next committee meeting on 28th March 2024.


Kirkwood Hall Visit Feedback - Committee Discussion following the visit to Kirkwood Hall on 21st November.


The Chair gave a brief outline of the visit to Kirkwood Hall that took place on 21st November and described the visit, the facilities and the information members gained from  Broadacres and the staff at Kirkwood Hall. All members that attended said they found it extremely beneficial and thanked the Chair for arranging the visit.


Development of the Integrated Care Systems and Partnerships that cover North Yorkshire - Presentation from Richard Webb, Corporate Director of Health and Adult Services. pdf icon PDF 1 MB


Considered – A presentation from Richard Webb on the Integrated Care Boards that cover North Yorkshire.


Richard covered the make up and how Health and Adult services worked with the Integrated Care Systems and identified the priorities

·       Place Board which the Chief Executive chairs

·       Care Market

·       Workforce

·       Public Health

·       Community Services


Strong progress has been made since the introduction of the Integrated Care System in July last year with good links being developed with Lancs and South Cumbria and a strong joint working with Bradford and Craven partnerships.

Areas identified for development include

·       Home First response

·       Intermediate Care

·       Continuing Health Care

·       Mental Health/Dementia/Autism

·       NHSFTs facing challenges


Resolved – The Chair thanked Richard for his presentation and Richard suggested he could return at a later date to discuss the capital transfer programme should members require.


Work Programme pdf icon PDF 263 KB

Report of the Democratic Services and Scrutiny Officer

Additional documents:


The work programme was discussed with no further amendments other than the additional meeting on the housing strategy as already agreed. It was noted that the March meeting was very top heavy, and some items may have to be re arranged, this will be discussed in further detail at the mid cycle briefing in February 2024.


Any Other Items

Any other items which the Chair agrees should be considered as a matter of urgency because of special circumstances


There were none.


Report for Information - Finding a Way Home - County Council's Network Report pdf icon PDF 3 MB

How health and social care can optimise hospital flow and discharge this winter to improve outcomes and performance.


Date of Next Meeting

The next Committee meeting is on Thursday 28th March 2024 at 10am in the Brierley Room, County Hall, Northallerton.


The date of the next meeting is 28th March 2024.