Agenda item

North Yorkshire Council's Petition Scheme - Filey Public Toilets

Should a petition contain 500 signatures or more it will be scheduled for debate at the next meeting of the appropriate Area Constituency Committee.

 

The following petition has exceeded 500 signatures, to date 1490, and, as such, will be considered at today’s meeting:-

 

“Free access to toilets in Filey, pending a full review and consultation for the administrative district”

 

At the meeting the petition organiser will be given five minutes to present the petition and an officer of the Council will provide a response. The petition will then be discussed by councillors for a maximum of 15 minutes.

 

A decision on how to respond to the petition will be agreed at the meeting. Councillors may decide:

 

             to take the action the petition requests

             not to take the action requested for reasons put forward in the debate

             to commission further investigation into the matter.

 

The petition organiser will receive written confirmation of the decision and the decision will be recorded in the minutes of the meeting, published on our website.

Minutes:

Should a petition contain 500 signatures or more a debate would be scheduled at the next meeting of the appropriate Area Constituency Committee.

 

The following petition had exceeded 500 signatures, and, as such, was considered at today’s meeting:

 

“Free access to toilets in Filey, pending a full review and consultation for the administrative district”

 

At the meeting the petition organiser, Jonathan Cairns, was given five minutes to present the petition and Harry Briggs, an officer of the Council, provided a written response read out by the Clerk. The petition was then discussed by councillors for a maximum of 15 minutes.

 

A decision on how to respond to the petition would be agreed at the meeting. Councillors may decide:

 

       to take the action the petition requests

·       • not to take the action requested for reasons put forward in the debate

       to commission further investigation into the matter.

 

The petition organiser would receive written confirmation of the decision and the decision

would be recorded in the minutes of the meeting, published on the Council’s website.

 

Mr Cairns outlined the following:

 

“As of 13th June 2023, the petition has 1531 supporters. These have been gathered informally and without mass collecting.  As an example one person on Coble Landing in late May collected 40 signatures in less than 35 minutes.

 

There has been 99.9% support for the Petition. All traders along the front have supported this.  It is not just about Coble Landing, it is for Barry Robson who was left to fend for himself when the previous year work overran by 3 months.  It is also for Steve Newton and his employees at Royal Parade, who wonder if their business will be decimated when Royal Parade toilets are dealt with.

 

The harsh lesson is much better planning and organisation is needed.    Builders need to have supplies before committing to work. Planning permission can’t be left to work out in January or February. Filey Town Council should be given more than 8 hours to look at plans. Local disability groups should be consulted on new design, and access.

 

All these actions affect people’s businesses and livelihoods. They affect hundreds and thousands of visitors. Filey deserves better service.  A written apology should be made to Mr Robson, and all those on Coble Landing for the delay and impact on their businesses. This delay was avoidable.

 

There is no excuse for lack of signage, and websites still saying toilets are open. No excuse for poor directions, giving incorrect street address.  Correct signage was promised to the planning committee on 20th April 2023.

 

1.     Temporary toilets were rejected by Mr Battersby, I could not persuade this committee to meet as a group of 3 ahead of 16th June 2023.

 

2.     A head height shower has been promised (email from Mr Battersby). Maintenance report for last year showed 4 blockages due to sand.  Is there a sand trap in this design?

 

3.     The petition has identified some very important compliance issues with building regulations for disability aspects of the prefabricated block. Despite a detailed letter of 8th May 2023, and a data protection request, no plans showing amended access or barriers have been provided. Majority of the doors open onto the road.

 

4.     I acknowledge that a Teams meeting took place with Mr Battersby and Mr Briggs on 1st June 2023, for which I am grateful.

 

5.     Unresolved is the issue of a safety barrier, the capacity of the toilets has been reduced from 16 units to 7. The doors open onto a busy road. A similar set of cubicles in Scarborough already attracts queues of 25 people on a regular basis. See photograph.

 

6.     The request is for all toilets blocks to be open on the front all year round. There may be an overlap here with charging policy.

 

7.     In addition to the 1523 supporters for this Petition, over 700 Filey residents were consulted for Vision for Filey, at a consultancy cost of £30,000 plus. Those residents advocated more opening for toilets. See page references 27, 51 and 53  in the Vision for Filey  document.

 

8.     Access to toilets is not just about a bottom-line cost saving. People’s health and wellbeing depend on access. Especially to those who are elderly and those with a disability.Post covid more people venture out, seeking fresh air and exercise.

 

9.     My Petition specifically says not to impose charges until there has been a review. The issue is how to fund the cost? This request is on a par with consultation that has taken place over the policy to charge or not for garden collection bins in Selby.

 

10.  It is Wednesbury unreasonable to charge Filey residents and visitors and businesses to pay for toilets, until there has been a proper review and consultation.  So please put charging on hold until a policy decision has been made.

 

Other options:

 

- take money from car park fees?

- charge in summer time only?

-  Not to charge business who pay rent, and rely on the toilets

- residents discount

- lower charge 20 pence

- what impact will charging have on visitor numbers.

 

Filey is, for example, very different to Scarborough, the cafes and kiosks are not overburdened with toilet facilities

 

- surely implied a business paying rent, has worked on rent being at level that includes access to toilets.

 

- ask Bridlington how their policy works Ie free entry

 

Why was the toilet capacity reduced by 55% with no consultation?

 

How many people will be on the beach in July, August, September? Is there sufficient capacity with just 7 cubicles? - who is going to monitor this?

 

What happens when it rains? - no shelter

 

Why are there no green climate adaptations? Solar panels, and water collection?

 

Opening times - this committee should direct please there should be consultation.

 

Vision for Filey - Mr Cairns outlined various paragraphs relevant to the provision of local public toilets from this document

 

“ basically saying toilets are essential for elderly and visitors, and should be open longer “

 

Yet SBC still shut them - why?

 

This is a really important document to help set policy for public toilets, my request is that North Yorkshire Council appoint someone to read this policy document to help set policy going forward. I am not expecting Councillors to read this for the meeting on 16th June 2023.

 

The Provision of Public Toilets

He outlined relevant paragraphs from this document

plus written evidence from Visit Britain

 

Items on the petition, not yet dealt with:-

 

Free access to toilets pending review and consultation

 

Plus :

 

Provision of footbath

 

Provision of safety barrier

 

More flexible opening hours for Filey toilets

 

Mr Bill Massey had requested that he provide a question/statement in relation to this matter and was invited, by the Chair, to do this at this stage. Mr Massey outlined his support of the issues set out by the petitioner and asked that the new facilities be provided free of charge, be better than the previous ones and be open all year round. He also asked for reconsideration of the placement of a barrier at Coble Landing to address safety concerns.

 

Harry Briggs, Interim Head of Service – Operations, Transport and Countryside (SCA), submitted the following response to the petition, which was read out by the Clerk due to a technical failure preventing Mr Briggs from accessing the meeting remotely:

 

“Thank you for the opportunity to respond to the ePetition filed by Mr Jonathan Cairns. Both Karl Battersby as Director and I have met with Mr Cairns and exchanged extensive communications on public convenience provision in Filey and the wider County. We have also met as a management team and discussed the issues raised in the petition and I am pleased to provide the following service response.

 

In terms of background; in October 2022 in dialogue with Filey Town Council,

Scarborough Borough Council agreed to fund improvement works to two public

conveniences in the town – Filey Ravine and Filey Country Park. During dialogue with the Town Council and Borough Councillors, it was agreed to demolish both facilities and replace with two new identical purpose built modular buildings. The design and specification was drawn up in partnership with the Town Council and the former Borough Council Portfolio Holder, this included the inclusion of pay on entry technology.

 

The block at Filey Ravine, lies within the Towns’ Conservation area, so the demolition required full planning consent, regrettably this had a significant impact on the project timeline.

 

Officers have continued to work hard to deliver the project and we anticipate both

facilities to be open to the public by Sunday 25th June 2023.

 

Petition point 1. Provide temporary toilets for Coble Landing, whilst the new toilets are being demolished and replaced.

 

Service response –

Officers have worked on sourcing temporary provision while the improvement works take place. Unfortunately unlike at Country Park, identifying a suitable location near to Filey Ravine with access to services and which does not impact on adjacent businesses has not been possible. Approximately 270m away from the former facilities at Filey Ravine is a newly refurbished facility complete with disabled provision, in recognition of the situation, the entry fee here was waived until the improvement scheme at Ravine is

complete.

 

Petition point 2. To provide free access at the point of entry to all toilet facilities in Filey, so as to be compatible with the Thirsk and Malton Area, in which Filey is now based.

 

Service response – North Yorkshire Council, Environmental Services, Racecourse Lane, Northallerton, DL7 8AD.The provision of public conveniences is a non-statutory service, as such the former Borough Council had a longstanding policy of implementing pay on entry technology where appropriate, to offset the cost of operating the service. Filey already has both free and chargeable facilities and this will continue. It is important to note that free provision continues to be offered to disabled users through the National Radar toilet access scheme. As the new management team we recognise that public conveniences is one of many areas of Council provision that varies across the County, following Local Government Reorganisation. A programme of work to review provision is due to start over the coming months to agree a new consistent approach to the service, this will involve the role of pay-on-entry technology and a strategic review of the network.

 

Petition point 3. To ensure that all toilet facilities are open all year round (allowing for reduced hours in winter)

 

Service response –

The former Borough Council operated a reduced network of sites over winter when demand was at its’ lowest. Our public conveniences see significant seasonal change in usage, so opening, closing and cleaning toilets with few, if any users, is operationally inefficient. The vast majority of our sites are also unheated making the sites susceptible to damage from freezing pipework, more so if there is little water demand. To open all facilities all year will require budget growth, at this stage we cannot commit to this. We can however commit to the all year round opening of Filey Ravine, for the foreseeablefuture.

 

Petition point 4. To ask the council to reinstate the footbath at the side of Ravine toilets, and to ensure a suitable safety barrier is installed

 

Service response –

As part of the specification drawn up with Town and former Borough Councillors the scheme includes a foot and full height external shower. Officers have worked extensively with colleagues in Highways to agree the final layout following the small amount of pathway regrading necessary. Following the re-profiling of the pavement the need for a barrier has been removed.

 

Petition point 5. To have flexible opening hours for the Ravine toilets in the month of December to support the Festive event.

 

Service response – The new facilities incorporate automated opening/closing technology and can be configured to open a reduced number of cubicles in the off season. Using this technology it is the intention to operate Ravine toilets as an all year facility.

 

I trust the above information is of use to the Chair and I welcome the thoughts of the Committee in due course.”

 

Members debated the details provided and the following issues were highlighted: -

 

·        It was clarified that the ACC had no power to implement any of the suggested actions outlined in the petition but could recommend that consideration be given to issues raised by the Committee to the Authority’s Executive.

·        A Member emphasised that the new toilets were not placed in just the Thirsk and Malton area but were in North Yorkshire, therefore, comparing these solely to other facilities in the ACC area was inappropriate. She stated that a review of all facilities would be taking place in the near future to ensure that they all operated on a consistent basis throughout North Yorkshire.

·        A Member suggested that the issues around safety raised by the petitioner should be referred to the Executive for further investigation, particularly in relation to health and safety concerns and DDA compliance.

·        It was stated that consideration of the issues raised should be welcomed by the Committee as it provided an opportunity to refer concerns to the Executive in respect of safety, winter opening, and charges being imposed. The Member highlighting this raised particular concerns regarding the safety of the toilets coming off the beach and the need for a barrier there.

·        A Member, also a Filey Town Councillor, welcomed the news regarding the forthcoming opening of the new toilets, following extensive work carried out in partnership with the Town Council. She noted that the introduction of charging for the use of the toilets had been implemented by a Filey Councillor. She suggested that the Committee took this opportunity to ensure that a review of public toilet provision throughout North Yorkshire took place to determine a common policy for all areas, through the Executive. The Chair recognised the requirement for a consistent approach and outlined how a review would be undertaken shortly to implement this.

·        A Member noted that the issues relating to the safety of the newly provided toilets in Filey lay with Highways and they would determine whether they were safe and legal in relation to their proximity to the road.

·        It was stated that an appropriate, consistent policy for public toilets throughout North Yorkshire was being developed, which would take account of charges and opening times, but in the interim the Committee could request the Executive to consider the health and safety concerns raised in respect of the new facilities in Filey and request an indication from the Executive of the likely timeline for the introduction of a consistent policy throughout North Yorkshire for the provision of public toilets.

·        The local Councillor for Filey stated that he had listened to the debate with interest. He noted the large numbers of local people that had signed the petition and also the large number of visitors that were attracted to Filey.  He recognised the need for a consistent approach throughout North Yorkshire and welcomed the opportunity to forward the issues of concern to the Executive. He suggested, however, that until the review had been carried out the new toilet facilities in Filey should be provided free of charge, with particular concerns for the wellbeing of elderly people, who were less likely to venture out should there be no free toilet facilities available. He considered that this matter should be submitted to the Executive alongside the other issues suggested. In response to this another Member stated that it was difficult for the Committee to make a judgement on the pricing issue without the full details being available, with a further Member stating that a full history of the situation being required for an informed decision on this to take place. Whilst supportive of the suggestion a Member considered that the issue of charging could have implications for all other public toilets in North Yorkshire should there be agreement not to charge for the Filey facilities, ahead of the review. It was noted that prior to the provision of the new facilities the toilets had been free, although subsequently there had been an agreement that had seen the operation and charging for such facilities been devolved to the Town and Parish Councils.

·        Members undertook a vote on the issues to be referred to the Executive in relation to the petition with the matter of charging included. This was defeated.

 

Resolved that it be recommended to the Executive –

 

(i)         That a response to the issues raised on Filey Toilets in relation to Health and Safety requirements and compliance with the Disability Discrimination Act be provided

 

(ii)        That an indicative timeline in respect of the proposed county wide review of public conveniences be published as soon as possible.