Minutes:
The Chair introduced this item welcoming all those who had attended the meeting in respect of this issue. He explained how Members of the ACC had agreed to discuss this matter at their previous meeting and had enabled the meeting to take place in Helmsley, allowing local residents to attend and express their views.
The procedure for this section of the meeting was outlined.
Initially the public questions related to this issue were provided as follows:
Carolyn Frank
As a Helmsley resident I am disgusted that an award winning and vibrant market town is left without an essential service for residents for both posting and banking. However, I am here today to represent small businesses in my role as development manager for the Federation of Small Businesses covering York & North Yorkshire.
Businesses in the town, over 100 independent businesses, in order to stay open, need both postal services and access to banking services. It is that simple, it is not an inconvenience or a service that would be nice to have, it is an outright risk to businesses being here by Christmas 2023 or Helmsley having empty units where viable businesses once stood. The Post Office has to take responsibility – businesses told them downgrading the service here to an in shop not standalone post office was a risk, and were ignored, and are now being fobbed off with apologies which mean nothing.
Online banking is not a solution for cash based businesses such as our brilliant cafes and takeaways, and with the demographic of an aging population in Helmsley, and the majority of businesses being microbusinesses, access to cash is paramount, and therefore a banking service for cash is needed in the town.
Postal services for online retail is part of retail today – a small shop in Helmsley cannot survive with footfall alone, they must trade online, and in order to compete with the likes of Amazon, they have to offer rapid delivery services, it is no good taking orders from a customer and saying I can post whenever I have to leave town next to go to a Post Office. With a microbusiness or sole trader, shops are losing many hours a week trading time, travelling out of town to post multiple deliveries in order to service their customers. Not all can access self service solutions.
There is also an impact on footfall – with no banks, and no Post Office which was promised as an alternative, what reason for local residents to come into town – the impact on our route-map to net zero of car usage instead of having accessible local services in walking distance is huge, not to mention the hollowing out of the service centre here in Helmsley.
It is not surprising that businesses are not queuing up to take on the post office – they are too small in both facilities and staff capacity, and the reputation of the post office is as an untrustworthy business partner given recent scandals.
The Post Office is solely responsible for the lack of service here, and in the absence of a suitable candidate approaching them to become postmaster after nearly a year, it is now up to them to find a solution ASAP – whether that is finding premises and reinstating a stand alone post office, or providing a regular daily and reliable mobile service to the town.
Alex Crossan
I am a Helmsley resident and I am amongst all of the residents who are sick of not having a post office here!
Please can we do something about this. I really feel for the pensioners here (and let's face it, most of the people are retired here) who cannot get their pensions easily. I have a business in Helmsley and I have to travel to Kirkbymoorside to the post office to send letters which need weighing. This is very inconvenient indeed, let alone having to pass by the now eyesore of a building that used to be Costcutters. Everyday shopping in Helmsley is now even more limiting with Costcutters gone.
The Coop is more expensive than the Coop in Kirkby with less choice which is disgusting but that's another thing. I am primarily emailing to ask if we can have another post office in Helmsley as a matter of urgency. Please can you give whoever is dealing with Costcutters a kick as we cannot have such a disaster in our village which once won awards for being chocolate boxy beautiful, now it looks downtrodden and feels downtrodden with no post office and a major empty shop space.
If you need any support on this I'm happy to help.
Don Wallace
Please could the PO provide a breakdown of the estimated revenue figure stated in the advert, and explain how remuneration operates - is it based on a fixed salary or PO product sales? Also could they confirm whether this figure has been enhanced due to inflation since the PO closed and the date of the advert?
Sharron Sumner
Strictly speaking (and in line with Constitution) Sharron should only have one question – What is the Chair and Vice-Chair’s opinion (I am being told to stick closely to the Constitution currently)
Recycling in Helmsley - given the Councils and Governments commitment to tackling the climate emergency, when will waste food and plastic container recycling services be available in Helmsley?
In addition, if there is time I would to raise a point in relation to item 10. Given the purpose of this committee is to consult with the community in each Constituency, why are these meeting held during working hours? A number of people wanted to attend todays meeting about the lack of Post Office Services in Helmsley but were unable to do so due to work commitments. Many Principle and Unitary Councils have moved to holding meetings during the evening to better enable resident participation, it is also a benefit to working Members. Evening meetings is one way of encouraging people from a more diverse background to stand for public office.
Anne Nightingale and Steve Sutcliffe
An explanation as to how Costcutter/Post Office collapsed and whether there is debt left on the property would be appreciated.
Grassington has a population of 1107 people, and has a thriving post office, yet Helmsley is left without one.
The Horizon scandal may have contributed to a lack of those able to deliver a Post Office service.
I note that two clothes shops have started up in Helmsley recently which shows that there is obviously enough footfall to take the risk of operating a Post Office.
Hope this helps get some answers for us!
Mrs Moran
Mrs Moran submitted her contribution via local Councillor George Jabbour. The issues she raised related to the provision of a mobile Post Office service, which had operated temporarily in Helmsley, and she noted that the times that this had operated and its location outside of the Town Centre had ultimately led to its failure and withdrawal.
Mark X Gibson - External Affairs Manager, Scotland, N. Ireland & North England Corporate Affairs, Brand & Communications was in attendance at the meeting, representing the Post Office, together with the Network Lead for the North of England. He outlined the following:
· The Post Office had no desire to leave Helmsley without any services as there was no benefit for anyone from this.
· He outlined the history of the situation that had occurred in Helmsley, providing details of how the Post Office operation came to be located in the Costcutter store, following a national resolution that required all Post Offices to be viable.
· These services were provided at those premises with a Post Master in place to run the service, with Costcutter’s owner providing the premises and additional staff.
· The Post Office are aware of the impact on a local community that the loss of local businesses and services have, but it was emphasised that the Post Office is required to operate commercially as there is not a infinite level of resources available to provide these services.
· In terms of the remuneration for the Post Master this was around £20k per annum which was based on the products/services provided. The products do not belong to the Post Master or the store, but are owned by the Post Office. Royal Mail also pays the Post Office to deliver services. It was noted that the various services (passport, Car Licensing, etc) were now put out to tender, and the DVLA had recently queried whether they would be undertaking this service though the Post Office in future, with a review as to how that would be delivered being undertaken at the end of the current contract.
· The current programme of local branches of banks has seen advice given that the local Post Office can provide these services. Whilst these can be provided the Post Office is not a bank and have to be paid appropriately for this to take place, in line with the need to operate commercially.
· In terms of the closure of the Costcutter store in Helmsley, this has happened overnight with the Post Office only provided with a few hours notice. At the time it was proposed that a new branch of the Post Office would be provided almost immediately. Staff were removed from other projects to enable this to happen, however, the operator could not gain access to the site, therefore, the opening was put back to a week later, but again this did not happen. There were no further options in terms of the existing location, therefore, an alternative provider was sought in appropriate stores in Helmsley, with one venue interested, but progress was unable to be made.
· Arrangements were made for the Mobile Post Office van to visit locations in Helmsley to try and ease the situation. This was undertaken on a voluntary basis, after the usual day, by the operator. This could not be continued beyond four weeks, however, as it was unsustainable for this to be provided by the operator additionally to the usual service.
· It was proving difficult to put something in place for Helmsley particularly as the Post Office were not minded to fund temporary solutions in the UK. There was also the issue of trying to identify a temporary Post Master which was also proving difficult, as this would be the only position of its type in the UK.
· He stated that someone had shown an interest in providing the services and was 80% confident that this would come to fruition, however there were no timescales currently.
· He emphasised that any help or assistance that could be provided to the local community in the interim until full services are restored and noted that any available financial assistance would help to speed things up.
Members discussed the issues raised and the following issues and points were highlighted:
· Local Member, Councillor George Jabbour, stated that the Post Office representatives had provided a fair assessment of the situation. He emphasised the need to provide a temporary solution as soon as possible, followed by a long term, permanent and viable solution. He noted that the Mobile unit had been very popular when it was introduced and felt that it would have been more successful if it had called into the centre of Helmsley, making it more accessible. He suggested that the reintroduction of the Mobile Unit, operating centrally, as well as the outlying communities, would be a good temporary solution for the town, and noted that this could be brought back fairly quickly. In response it was stated that whilst it was agreed that a temporary solution was required as soon as possible but it was unlikely the Mobile Unit could be utilised as this was fully utilised in other areas, and a redistribution of its services would be very difficult. There was also an issue in providing a temporary solution in that the existing postal service equipment, currently in place in the Costcutter store, would have to be removed and that would reflect on the cost. It was therefore important that a permanent solution be found, although should this begin to become difficult, timewise, then the situation would be revisited. Councillor Jabbour emphasised the need to identify a permanent solution but also considered that a call into central Helmsley by the Mobile Unit, maybe once per week, would help to alleviate some of the current difficulties.
· A Member considered that the closure of Sub-branches of banks had compounded the situation in Helmsley and asked if there was a possible community led situation to the present situation. In response it was stated that some communities had developed organisations to deliver similar services, however, a Post Master was still required to operate Post Office services and the retail side would still need to be offered.
· A Member raised concern regarding the potential cessation of the car taxing service from the Post Office and suggested that the numerous services provided should be kept in one place, and considered that the Government and Post Office should be lobbied to ensure that this was the case. In response it was stated that the Post Office were now required to obtain contracts for all services provided, including those from the DVLA. Support for the retention of Post Office services from public bodies such as the Council would be appreciated.
· Mr Gibson highlighted the recent development of banking hubs in some areas, which operated within Post Offices, and provided banking facilities for a number of banks. These were established through funding from the banks and Cash Access UK, and provided access to various banking services for a number of banks and Post Office services, in one location.
· A Member referred to the difficulties faced by, in particular, older people in local communities, with banking and Post Office services being replaced by online facilities. She noted that in her own electoral Division, Thornton-le-Dale, a solution to the closure of the Post Office had been found through combining these services with the local General Store. This provided security for that local business, and addressed the requirements of the local community. She considered that this would be the most appropriate, viable solution for Helmsley. A Member highlighted the success of the various Community Shop based Post Offices in his electoral Division, and considered that this works well in some areas. The Member representing Helmsley Division stated that a Community Shop solution had been explored in Helmsley but had not come to fruition, mainly as there was a high level of footfall for the existing businesses, therefore there was no reason for them to take on the additional responsibilities that come with providing Post Office facilities. Some voluntary groups has looked into the possibility of providing Post Office services, but were unable to identify a Post Master.
· Every effort was being made to provide a solution to the lack of Post Office services currently in Helmsley and this would continue, with a continued search for appropriate solutions, both temporary and permanent.
· Members thanked the local community for attending the meeting and representing opinions on the provision of Post Office services.
Resolved
That the following be thanked:
· Councillor George Jabbour for bringing this issue to the attention of the Committee
· The representatives of the Post Office for attending the meeting and providing the relevant details
· Members of the public for attending in numbers and outlining their concerns.
It was agreed that the issues raised be noted and the issues highlighted be acted upon accordingly.