· Any member of the public, who lives, works or studies in North Yorkshire and York can ask a question to the Panel. The question or statement must be put in writing to the Panel no later than midday on Monday, 11th October 2021 to Diane Parsons (contact details below).
· On 14th October, the time period set aside for asking and responding to all questions will be limited to 30 minutes. No one question or statement shall exceed 3 minutes.
· Please see the general rules regarding Public Question Time at the end of this agenda page. The full protocol can be found at www.nypartnerships.org.uk/pcp.
Minutes:
[Martin Walker joined the meeting during this item, following technical issues]
Gwen Swinburn delivered the following statement to the Panel:
“In spite of the confidence in our police and fire service top management, recent events give cause to look at our governance and assurance. I am deeply concerned with the complexity and firewalls between this Panel, the PFCC, Chief Constable and Chief Fire Officer and, most concerningly, the so-called Independent Audit Committees, whose role should be front and centre, very visible and involving members of this Panel. The entire governance framework is confusing, outdated, not transparent enough and not fit for our current purpose in my view. I have written to the Panel separately to lodge some more detailed and initial concerns.
“I also have to address the role of this Panel which understandably has come under some recent scrutiny. We cannot get away from the fact that both of the controlling parties have only men here, despite plenty of talented women among their ranks. It’s far more than bad optics, especially now. It does need addressing.
“I am asking, Chair, whatever happens, an independent-led root and branch review of every aspect of governance of our PFCC’s police and fire services is commissioned at pace.
“Finally I read with horror the views of the PFCC’s staff as leaked to the media last night and the PFCC’s complete denial. This is gut-wrenching after what they went through with his predecessor. We need to thank them for their bravery and for bringing this to the attention of all of us.
Finally to Mr Allott. As repugnant as your initial remarks were, it is your behaviour ever since that tells all. This letter, the final straw, means you have to do the one decent thing available to you now which is resign. Thank you, Chair.”
The Chair acknowledged the concerns raised and advised that the Panel will work towards getting the assurance sought for the Panel, with a report back at the next meeting.
Susan Galloway submitted the following questions to the Panel, which were read out on her behalf:
“Is the Panel satisfied that in-depth background checks are done on (a) new recruits and (b) those police officers transferring in? If those checks show up any concerns what action is taken by whom and to whom are they reported, and how are those actions recorded?”
Simon Dennis was invited to help respond to the questions by outlining in detail the vetting process undertaken for new recruits and transferees, and it was confirmed that all staff, officers and volunteers undergo a form of vetting. Some roles require a higher level of clearance. Checks on transferees are enhanced by a more in-depth process and concerns emerging during vetting are escalated. The vetting manager can conduct a vetting interview but also can opt to reject an application as a fail without interview, depending on the concerns.
Councillor Grogan asked as a supplementary how spent convictions are dealt with in relation to police officer recruits and it was agreed that this information would be obtained after the meeting.
Dr Hannah Barham-Brown posed the following questions to the Panel:
“1) Would the Panel expect the PFCC to have acknowledged and responded to letters from both the York branch of the Women’s Equality Party and Mandu Reid, Leader of the Women’s Equality Party, which asked him how he intends to keep women in North Yorkshire safe and whether he will commit to an independent enquiry into systematic misogyny in North Yorkshire Police? There has been no response to either piece of correspondence. Does the Panel agree that this lack of acknowledgment seems at odds with the PFCC's apparent concern for ending violence against women and girls?
“2) Mr Allott has claimed that he should not resign in light of the many complaints and protests because he received 83,000 votes, more than “any MP”. Clearly, this is a false equivalence, as MP constituencies are far smaller. How many complaints or petition signatures would the Panel feel is necessary for Mr Allott to reconsider his position? Is it appropriate for Mr Allott to refuse to listen to his constituents until the next election is called?
“3) The Association of Police and Crime Commissioners describes Mr Allott's role as being a voice for the public and holding the police to account. How do the Panel feel Mr Allott's comments in his interview with BBC York reflected this job description?
“4) Police and Crime Commissioners are expected to adhere to the 7 Nolan principles; Selflessness, integrity, openness, honesty and leadership. Do the Panel agree that Mr Allott's recent comments and behaviour have failed to adhere to these?”
The Chair advised that the latter three questions were germane to discussions so would be covered then. The Commissioner was invited to respond to question 1. Mr Allott advised that he had replied to one of the letters referenced by email (and had received an acknowledgment) and that the second would be dealt with this week.
Veronicka Dancerwas invited to put her question to the Panel as follows:
“As a resident of North Yorkshire, please can the Panel confirm that they still have full confidence in the ability and competence of the Commissioner, Philip Allott, to represent and champion the needs of all vulnerable residents following his recent public demonstration of poor judgement?”
The Chair advised that this question similarly was germane to discussions at Item 6 so would be considered at that point.